Troubleshooting ARB equipped ZJ Dana 30

[naturalbornmudder]

Symptoms:
- immediate air leak in ARB air feed line somewhere between where the air line exits the cab and where it meets the actuator collar in the diff.
- vibration noise coming froom the front driveline or axle
- ARB locker will not engage

Layman's Diagnosis:
- probably creased/broke the air line at the point it goes into the diff through the bulkhead fitting
- vibration unknown

Turning the wrench:

popped the diff cover. The diff had some water in it from the last wheeling trip. The water did not mix with the synthetic oil, s the water came out of the diff first. About 2 tablespoons. not much, but enough to create some surface rust on the ARB carrier.
http://www.frozenaxles.com/picture.php?albumid=6&pictureid=231

note the surface rust on the carrier
http://www.frozenaxles.com/picture.php?albumid=6&pictureid=232

ARB copper line somehow got sucked into the ring gear, rubbing a hole in the copper line, thus creating an air leak so the ARB couldn't get air to function properly.
http://www.frozenaxles.com/picture.php?albumid=6&pictureid=233

also found that noise. The crush sleeve backed away and the pinion nut loosened thus throwing off the gear pattern and allowing the pinion gear to rub slightly on the ARB carrier. Note the tell-tale horizonal rubbing scratches. Luckily the pinion gear and carrier are undamaged. Time to run to the parts store for a new crush sleeve and pinion nut as well as more gear pattern paste.
http://www.frozenaxles.com/picture.php?albumid=6&pictureid=234

[naturalbornmudder]

When you eliminate the impossible, whatever left, however improbable, must be the answer

noting this trueism, what could have caused the copper line to get sucked into the ring gear? I know when I routed the copper linearound the ring gear with a clearance of greater than 1/2".
-Is the diff fluid thickening enough to deflect the line into the ring gear?
-could the line have went into the gear when the carrier spun under normal rotation? the ARB actuator freely floats on the carrier sleeve and the copper line keeps the actuator from spinning with the carrier when it rotates.

[Dr Brian]

I think 3 people sucked copper lines into the R&P this winter...which is why I don't have my ARB now...I chickened out.

I plan on talking with ARB directly, next week. I might see if they can look at the pictures.

Perhaps there is a smarter arctic routing pattern....I was surprised this happened with 75-90 synthetic.... :ack:

Although I don't see why you have to be routed back past the ring and not pop out more laterally.

[AKMark]

Maybe the water in the fluid is what caused it to pull out. If the water froze.......

You get the picture.

At least you caught it before something really bad happened.

[The_Ronster]

Did you install the actuator with the line coming out of it clocked all the way to the top? When you install the carrier bolts this should tighten the actuator down causing very little if any movement. When I had mine out last month I didnt have any movement (in the actuator or the line as it was routed) so I cant understand why you would have any.

With running synthetic your gear oil shouldnt get thick enough to suck the tube in but if its not secure I could see how it could happen. I still go back to the school of thought that if the hole going through the diff is close as you can get it to the front lip and the copper line is secure that you shouldnt have problems like this. I will call ARB Thursday if you need though.

Just my .02c...

[naturalbornmudder]

the water didn't get into the diff until after the air line was severed.

I will need to place a call to ARB and get a new actuator

[AKAMC]

I have seen some pretty wild things happen with thickening gear oil up north. We had a colder winter this year as well. My first thought was maybe there is a better product then the copper line for our colder weather application. Stainless steel brake line maybe? I'd bet this is happening in the first few revolutions after sitting over night at -40 or colder. Most gear oils seem to act like thick paste until there worked a few minutes in that weather. Up north heavy equipment use is limited to -35 and higher although that’s for hydraulic fluid issues. Seems that gear oils would be worse and a soft copper line would be no match for a thick gob from the bottom of the ring gear being pulled past it. Heck... I'd think even SS brake line material would have a hard time dealing with that.

I'm no expert on the ARB that’s for sure. I've never owned one or seen one installed but are there other options for the air line placement that would give you more clearance on the ring gear?

It might be kind of interesting to leave a few different grades in open cans out side next winter. Just to see how thick they really get at -40...

[The Bronze]

- ARB locker will not engage

ARB copper line somehow got sucked into the ring gear, rubbing a hole in the copper line, thus creating an air leak so the ARB couldn't get air to function properly.
Time to run to the parts store for a

http://www.eaton.com/EatonCom/ProductsServices/PerformanceProducts/Products/Differentials/Elocker/index.htm

:hah:

[naturalbornmudder]

http://www.eaton.com/EatonCom/ProductsServices/PerformanceProducts/Products/Differentials/Elocker/index.htm

:hah:

to copy you, don't you mean...
http://evergreen-rentals.com/images/jackstands.jpg

[naturalbornmudder]

so as I was looking over the pictures, I saw the real problem with the leaking ARB. Ironically enough, the copper line was touching the ring gear, but it surprisingly did not wear enough into the copper to cause a hole. The blue air line popped, for some reason, some how and blew out the side of the line. Look at picture 3 in post #1 where the blue line coils and heads out of sight behind the upper control arm.

Tonight I will be rerouting the copper line to see if it is truly safe enough to remian functional, and replace the pinion seal, crush sleeve, and pinion nut.

[The_Ronster]

if you need a new copper tube let me know...

[Dr Brian]

So looking at ARB installs, I noted that the copper air line is on the opposite side from yours...away from the ring gear. As I recall Eric (NORAKOR) was routed the same as yours. ... eh?

[The Bronze]

to copy you, don't you mean...
http://evergreen-rentals.com/images/jackstands.jpg


I know a ZJ those could hold up, but the ones pictured wouldn't reach up to my axles. :box:

Seriously though, good eye.

[naturalbornmudder]

so a quick stop by Youngs Gear netted me a pinion seal, pinion nut, and crush sleeve that should be the correct one. Young's even threw in a packet of gear indicating paste for free.
I got back into the garage tonight and got the axle pulled apart, all the way to the point where I need to smack the knuckle with a hammer to get the tie rod to fall out.


tools of the trade
http://www.frozenaxles.com/picture.php?albumid=6&pictureid=238


Hover-jeep
http://www.frozenaxles.com/picture.php?albumid=6&pictureid=239


carrier ready to come out. be careful not to clip the ring gear teeth when you are removing the carrier.
http://www.frozenaxles.com/picture.php?albumid=6&pictureid=236


to save time and headache, take off the 3 12 point 1/2" bolts that hold the bearing hub in place, ad the axleshaft will slide out with it. That saves you having to remove the 32mm nut on the stubshaft and also having to re-torque it when you are done.
http://www.frozenaxles.com/picture.php?albumid=6&pictureid=237


you have to remove the tie rod from the steering knuckle so the carrier has room to drop out of the axle housing. This is my stopping point because I cannot hammer in the garage after the kiddos go to bed.
http://www.frozenaxles.com/picture.php?albumid=6&pictureid=235

[naturalbornmudder]

Eric(holeski) came over tonight and helped turn a wrench to get this thing in gear. we got the pinion seal installed, set the preload, rechecked the ARB line and decided to run it.
Need to change the short side inner seal and need some carrier shims as some how or another I am missing a shim or 2 on the non-actuator side of the carrier.

The phrase of the night was, "Dammit Matt" as 99TJ had taken the pinion torque bar, the torque wrenches, all of the shims, and everything else I needed to do the job tonight.:stooges:

[naturalbornmudder]

we also figured out the reason for my preload and pinion walking problems. The yoke neck diameter was too big. It pushed the neck of the pinion seal rubber gasket back instead of sliding over the yoke. When I torqued the pinion nut, it was torqueing against the rubber gasket, which then deflected, causing the pinion to walk.

[naturalbornmudder]

and the final answer is:
blue line melted through, copper line almost worn through by ring gear, but the big kahuna was the brazing where the copper line goes into the actuator was cracked allowing air to escape. Oy!
Eric and I got the gear pattern wrapped up, got the driveshaft, brakes, hubs, tires and ARB heavy duty line installed. As soon as the RTV dries, I will fill the diff with fluid and run it for the week or so that it will take to get a new ARB actuator.

[99TJ]

Ron should have that one he ordered for me in a few days if you need it take it, and I'll take the next one. I still have lots of miles before I can install it anyway.

[naturalbornmudder]

the fix:
Bought an ARB heavy duty rubber line from Wild Alaska offroad and routed it safely away from the exhaust and the front driveline. Now awaiting the ARB actuator to get my locker functioning again.

[naturalbornmudder]

Note: When you are putting the ARB back in the housing, keep the compressor on and the locker button on so that the locker stays actuated. that way you can hear the compressor run if you spring an air leak somewhere. I recently did this when I replaced the actuator and the inner diff seal in the 30.
The other lesson I learned was to have the copper line pointed toward the top of the diff as much as possible so there would not be such an extreme bend on the actuator line where the brazing is. I also routed the line up and over the top of the ring gear before corkscrwing it into the bung fitting at the top of the axle housing.

[wayne_l]

after reading all that welding my diffs didnt seem so bad ..lol