Locker questions....

[Disco69]

Ok fellas, after today's ride, I'm hell bent on getting a locker in both axles. I know I have a D30/D44 combo. I assume the 30 has 27 splines and the 44 has 30 splines, right?

Secondly, eventually 35s are a real possibility, I'm going to want to regear to deeper gears. Would it be best to just go ahead, regear now to 4.56 w/33s, and install the lockers at the same time?

Thirdly, are the stock axle shafts OK to run with deeper gears and lockers or should I upgrade the shafts as well?

Fourthly, I'm not real happy with getting bent over by Young's Gear in town to the tune of $4000 for parts/labor. I'm very eager to learn how to do a gear swap and install lockers, and really anything. I feel bad for asking for help b/c my automotive knowledge is limited and I don't have a whole lot to offer when it comes to helping others out, other than turning wrenches and providing some (small amount) extra muscle.

[akhillbille]

reagear when ever is convienent for you. I would go to 4.88 with 35's though personally. D30 is 27 spline and to me this is ok but upgrading wouldn't hurt and chromoly shafts would make it that much better. Add a truss to the D30 and truss the inner C's and it should be good to go. D44 shafts should be fine depending on how you wheel. I would go with a selectable for the D30 and you can save some moolah by going witha n auto locker ie lunchbox locker for the D44. Doing gears isn't all that hard. Mostly time consuming and if things aren't working right it can be fustrating. I say get parts setup a build day let other do the work for you, lol. If you do set up a build day I'm sure folks will help out. i will if I'm available. As for the parts just shop around on the internet. Call the companies and ask about getting deals on shipping up here for military folks. Ron also can get some good deals.

[The Bronze]

I'm not a Dana 30 guy, so I'll let the others speak to the wisdom of keeping it. I would regear, lockers and chromemoly shaft it all at the same time, add a set of 35 MTRs and you will be good to go.

Depending upon the timeframe, You can count on me to help you with the gear install.

[DNA]

After seeing the difference it made today, I started shopping around on these so I can add it to my plans. What do you all think of the OX lockers?

When you go to 35's, I might be willing to help defray some of the cost by taking those 33's off your hands. I won't be ready for a few months though.

[AKMark]

There are better places to get regears done than Youngs.

I might be willing to lend a few hours in my shop, I don't have a press for pressing the bearings though.

[naturalbornmudder]

I would be willing to lend a hand setting up the gears as well. I have a somewhat-portable press for putting the bearings on. I also have Dana 30 and Dana 44 test bearings. What I don't have are a lot of extra shims or a bearing puller. I borrow one from a friend when I do my gear installs.

Depending on where you do the most of yoru driving makes the difference on whether to go 456 or 488. If you are zipping around on base mostly, I would 488 it and save up for 35's. If you do a lot of highway driving I would go 488 and buy 35's soon.:)

Like Mel said, Gear set-up is not terribly hard but a timely process. It's an absolute must to get it right. I am not going to chuck anybody under the bus but I know 1 FAO member, 1 potential member/potential vendor, and a few other folks who either know what they are doing or have a pretty good idea. Heck, Fourdoors got a good grasp on it over at my house rebuilding the Dana 35 in my TJ.

Like DNA, I might also be willing to purchase your 33's if you bump to 35's, provided he doesn't jump on that deal.

Talking about stock 27 spline Dana 30 shafts, I agree with Mel. Run em. If they fail, then replace them twice before considering chromoly but you can break aa few junkyard picked stock Dana 30 shafts before you are into the money that it would take to buy chromoly. It starts getting a little complicated with chromoly because then are you going to stick with 27 splines in them as well or go to 30 spline. If you go to 30 spline you need a new locker/carrier.
I have ran Dana 30's with the stock 27 spline shafts in every Jeep I have owned(6 of them) and have yet to have a failure due to broken shaft. Most importantly is make sure you have good U joints in there and that is half the problem solved.

As for Ox lockers, they are nice once you get the cable adjusted to the correct throw for the shifting. I have only known 2 guys who ran them. Both guys had problems. Both problems were the result of improperly adjusted shift cables. I would spend the same or less money and get E lockers, if it were me. I'll skip the reasons why I wouldn't recommend ARB...it's documented on here.

[The_Ronster]

Im going to stray from the pack on this one a bit...;)

First, regear and lock at least the rear at the same time, you have to go past your carrier break unless you use thick gears but why bother if your already going to be in there, save some money this way.

If its going to be a bit before you go to 35's (your 33's are brand new) or if you dont know if your going to jump to 35s or not go with 4.56 gearing. There isnt a whole lot of difference between 4.88 and 4.56 and with the lack of real crawling we do up here the 4.56 is more than enough even for 35s or maybe even a 37.

Now, lockers... Opinions are like editeditediteditediteditedits, but you knew that already. It really comes down to what you are willing to spend and how much you plan on daily driving your jeep (I know you got that nice truck sitting in the driveway). If you want to use your jeep for summer daily driving duties and winter trail rides, you can get away with a lockrite up front meaning you save about $500 or more. If you go this route, I would look at cromo axle shafts sooner rather than later. Also, if you go this route you could go as simple as a spool or mini spool in the rear. It will suck on the road and on ice but save a ton of dough. If you want it to handle well on the road as well as the trail you need to either go the detroit or better yet a selectable locker.

Many here have had lots of problems with ARBs (NBM comes to mind :rolleyes: ) while just about everyone I know has had problems with OX. The wildcard is the e locker which IMHO hasnt really been tested out yet and Im not sold of electronic wiring inside of the diff, especially at the colder temps which will cause the diff oil to harden. If it were me, Id go Detroit, thats what I am planning next month anyhow.

Now for the secret. If you really want to get lots of people to show up to help out you have to buy lots and lots of Shastas. Cool them down to ice cold temps and post up what ya got. :D

[The Bronze]

Now for the secret. If you really want to get lots of people to show up to help out you have to buy lots and lots of Shastas. Cool them down to ice cold temps and post up what ya got. :D

D'oh! The secret is out!

[boostlesstj]

i'd go with a lockrite out back and a selectable up front if i did it again. just my $0.02

as fars as gears i'm probably gonna go with 4.88's incase i get a wild hare and go for 35's

[Disco69]

Well, the bottom line is I'm not going to go cheap on something like these. I'm going to need it to be road worthy, so I'm thinking the Detroit or ECTED in the rear and a to be determined locker in the front. I'm gonna do my research on em and pick up editediteditedit tons of Shasta.

[Disco69]

Well, I drove down to Youngs to see how much they could get me the parts for. Here is the skinny:

4.56 Ring and Pinion - $250ish per axle
Master Install Kits - $125 per axle
Detroit for the D44 - $750

LMAO!!!!!!! I'm gonna snoop around the net.

[AKMark]

That's pretty typical, infact, that's pretty decent, except it's a bit steep for a Detroit.

I bet with shipping, you'll have issues getting the gears and install kits for much less than that.

[The_Ronster]

That's pretty typical, infact, that's pretty decent, except it's a bit steep for a Detroit.

I bet with shipping, you'll have issues getting the gears and install kits for much less than that.

Actually thats pretty insane pricing. The Detriot shouldnt be more than $550, gears should be around $130 for the D30 and $160 for the D44. Install kits should be around $75-110 as well.

[Disco69]

Yukon Gear D44 4.55 R&P $195.91
Yukon Gear D44-REAR D44 MASTER OVERHAUL $154.82
Yukon Gear D44 GRIZZLY LOCKER, D44 $529.00
Yukon Gear D30 SHORT 4.56 R&P S $183.92
Yukon Gear D30 SHORT in TJ MASTER OVERHAUL, '98 $132.33
Eaton E-Locker D30 3.73 & UP 30spl $899.00
Auburn ECTED D30 27spl 3.73 & UP $667.27
1 YESRP-REAR Y.E.S. REAR - Yukon $29.99 $29.99 (Lifetime Warranty)
1 YESRP-FRONT Y.E.S. FRONT - Yukon $29.99 $29.99 (Lifetime Warranty)

This was a quote from Randy's Ring and Pinion. Shipping on everything, minus the front locker, is $260. All in all to my door with gears, install kits, and rear locker: $1513. :coke:

[AJPTHNG]

Just from my experience I knew I was going to go with 36x13.5 Iroks so I went with 4.88's, I have good power and have no problem getting to highway speeds but I wish I would have gone with 5.13's for that little bit extra. I also went with the Super 30 kit with the ARB, I only got 1 winter with it up there but I didn't have any problems. I've also used it alot down here in South Dakota and the only problem I've had so far is my air line got into the A/C pully and rubbed a hole in it.

Here is a pic of a stock D30 27 Spline and a Super 30
http://www.arcticoffroad.com/forum/gallery/files/2/6/8/IMGP2129.JPG
http://www.arcticoffroad.com/forum/gallery/files/2/6/8/IMGP2128.JPG

The rear I took my L/S out and went with an open carrier and a mini-spool with thick gears, fun sliding around the corners in the winter or pushing through a turn. I would also drift the round abouts in North Pole or just drive right through them.

Find some way to get some more strenght in the D30 if your going to keep it, do some sort of selectable locker, the D44 I would go with some sort of full locker like Detroit or a lunch box style locker if you have an open carrier.

[Justaguy]

Now for the secret. If you really want to get lots of people to show up to help out you have to buy lots and lots of Shastas. Cool them down to ice cold temps and post up what ya got.

I cheat I brew shastas 5 gal at a time in my basement:D

[akhillbille]

Here is the big issues with the D30. The housing is weak and the inner c's are weak. Trussing these two is a must in my opinion if you plan on keeping the axle for a period of time. I haven't done this and my inner c's are starting to bend slightly. I also have yet to actually break an axle shaft. My problem has been ujoints. I've used good ones and cheap ones. But when one of those snap they tend to take out the ears on the shafts and possibly the hub bolts too. If you run chromoly shafts upgrading to a much stronger u-joint is a great idea.

After going through several vehicles and on each one I took things in steps I've learned a few things. Do it once and do it right. Sometimes this can end up being pricey but cheaper in the long run. If you have to piece parts together and wait a bit so be it. My issue with the ARB is the O-rings. They seem to wear out for whatever reason. That is the only issue I had. I don't like the ox locker due to adjusting the cables can be a pain and I'm not sure about the cable staying adjusted. I wouldn't run a auto locker in the front if you plan on a bit of street driving. It will not be fun and wear tires out really quick. It'll be down right scary in the winter.

[The_Ronster]

O rings in the actuator? Mine have been good the entire time but I have seen the copper tubing get sucked into the ring gear on more than one D30. That being said I think there is a good and bad place to run it through the housing.

You running synthetic with the ARBs? They say it doesnt matter but with our temps it does.

[AKMark]

Actually thats pretty insane pricing. The Detriot shouldnt be more than $550, gears should be around $130 for the D30 and $160 for the D44. Install kits should be around $75-110 as well.


I agreed the Detroit's price was steep, however, seeing Randy's quote, it's pretty close when you include shipping.

[akhillbille]

Ron yes running synthetic. no copper line issues at all.

[Disco69]

Ron let me know when you want to make the order. I'd like to talk with you about a couple of things before I decide to shell out the clams for this.

[The_Ronster]

Give me a ring later tonight if you can.

[Dr Brian]

After watching all the ARB line issues last winter, I think I will do an electric locker (eaton).

I was waiting for the Bronze to roll with his elocker....but I don't think it has been past the barn doors yet :img15:

[99TJ]

Mine's still dead, electrial issue, wish I woulda just bought an arb my front one works flawlessly. *knock on wood*

[The_Ronster]

I havent had much problem with my ARB and the one problem I did have was my own fault... If installed correctly I dont think you would have much problem.

[Dr Brian]

I just remember last winter 3-4 ARBs out with that copper line getting munched, o-rings leaking....

Factory rubicon lockers, FJ lockers (toyota in general) appear to work fine. hell, auto trannsmissions use the electricity to shift...

Of course this issue is the second biggest reason I don't have any locker...yet.

[akhillbille]

I've never had an issue with any lines. my problems have been that i drowned the compressor with it running and the oring which I' sure is a result of the previous drowing and running the trail with water in the diff due to bad axle seals.

[Justaguy]

If there are issues of the copper lines being crushed, why not go to synflex lines. The trucking industry dropped using copper lines for air back in the '70s.

[naturalbornmudder]

you would have to cut the copper line just short of the actuator and then connect in another material. Another connection point equals another point of possible failure, in my opinion.

[boostlesstj]

you would have to cut the copper line just short of the actuator and then connect in another material. Another connection point equals another point of possible failure, in my opinion.

or an ARB that doesnt work because it's already leaking air....

i think most of the problem is actually internal, not the external copper line

[The_Ronster]

who has had that problem? I havent seen that one before. The copper airline inside the diff has been the biggest problem up here, but again, I think if you run it right you eliminate the problems and likelyhood that this will be an issue.

[akhillbille]

Yes ron running it the right route is most important. The issue some folks were having up here is when they ran hte copper line it was in a bad spot to begin with. When they started to drive with thick cold gear oil it would actually pull the line into the ring gear. but like you said route it right to begin with and you wont have this problem.

Also make sure you have good axle seals and don't drown anything.